Bob Kenney has been researching his family tree and is stuck at his great great great grandmother. She was Ellen Healy of Crippleford, and her marriage to Timothy Buckley on June 1, 1833 is listed in the Dromtarriffe Parish Register.
He had been trying to locate Crippleford, but after some time failed, so he asked us, but we’ve never heard of it, and no-one we asked has heard of it either. So we’re wondering if anyone of our readers has heard of it, or could ask someone that might know. Bob would be delighted if someone could help him out. If so please leave a comment below, or contact us directly [contact details are on our Contact Page].
A few thoughts:
1.. There are a couple of references to Crippleford online, all referring to “Thomas Wallace born Jan.6, 1806 in Rethcool, Duhallow, Cripleford on the Blackwater in County Cork,Ireland”. [1] [2]. There are also more references to Crippleford in the parish register, so it’s safe to say that the name did/does exist in the Dromtarriffe Parish area.
2.. It was normal for townlands to be used in the parish registers, but not uncommon for other places to be used (eg. in the Millstreet Parish, Aubane is not a townland, but is commonly used, and Mill Lane was regularly used, but is in the Liscahane townland)
3.. It may be an anglicised version of a townland, that we’re not able to translate.
4.. The ‘ford’ in the name suggests it was a place where the river was crossed. We checked the old OSI maps, and there is no ford on the Blackwater in the Rathcoole / Dromtarriffe area, only stepping stones, but, in the 1840 there was a ford on the river Aubane River on the road from Rathcoole to Kilcorney (about 900m from Rathcoole Village) [1840 OSI map]. By 1890 the ford was gone and a Bride’s Bridge was in its place [1890 OSI Map], as it still is today [google maps]
It’s possible that this may be the area, as it’s in the Rathcoole townland.
5.. All the Townlands of Duhallow are listed here:
townlands.ie/cork/duhallow/
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Update June 12th: Thanks to Mary Buckley, who let us know in a comment (below) where it was located.
“It was a place name way back in 1833 in Dromtariffe but the name has changed and its on the banteer road from Rathcoole alright. No connection to cripple people being cured atall.”
“Across the road (from Coleman’s Old Garage), down a by-road”
Location in Maps:
1840 OSI Map
1890 OSI Map
1995 Sattelite view
2005 sattelite view
Google Maps (level crossing has now been blocked. access is by the new bridge 800m closer to Rathcoole)
The Bride family used to live there that cul de sac the the 1800s until around the 1950s (1901 census / 1911 census) when the McKerring family leased/purchased the farm from Babs Bride, and are still there.
The Railway (1852):
the Railway line wasn’t built until 1852, and all the references to Crippleford are from before that time. Here is the map from approx 1840
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On a side-note: Bride’s Bridge is located halfway between Rathcoole village and Old Chapel Cross [here], I wonder did it get it’s name from the Bride family? Also, I wonder if they were connected to the influential Bryde family of the Tanyard. There were Brydes of Bolomore::“Birth of Benjamin Bryde Bolomore 1888″ [ref]
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perhaps the ford where they took crippled people to be cured???
Could there be an Irish name for it which might be better known?
On speaking to Tadgh, he remembers his father mentioning Crippleford when he was young. He seems to remember it of being on the road from Rathcoole to Banteer, and for some reason, the area of FortGrady [map] is in his head.
He suggested a deeper search of the Dromtarriffe registers for the Healy Family.
Jack: It is a possibility, so I will also have to find someone to help with the Irish translations.
Mary: I would say that it wouldn’t be a place to cure cripples, as somewhere like that would likely be well known about.
It was a place name way back in 1833 in Dromtariffe but the name has changed and its on the banteer road from Rathcoole alright. No connection to cripple people being cured atall.
A million thanks Mary. We had been pondering this one for some time and was nearly giving up hope on it. Was it by Coleman’s old garage / Fort Grady, or do you not know specifically where it was.
Across the road, down a by-road and I am in the homestead of the gentleman trying to find his relations. I am the new widow of John Buckley R.I.P (2oth of March 2016) Only see your post now so had to make contact.
Indeed there is a ford on the 1890 map [here], just by the rail line, which i missed when searching earlier.
i had thought it might have been at the back of Coleman’s blacksmiths, where there was also a ford (just to the rear), and the ‘cripple’ was a variant of ‘curple’ which has to do with horses.
I remember your husband John, but only to see, and unfortunately not to talk to 🙁 I hope it works out with Bob Kenny, and that everything matches up. from discussing with him, he has put an awful lot of effort into researching, before making contact.
There is a Cripplegate in London but it seems to have nothing to do with cripples but was a old saxon word for an undergound or covered passge
Admin’s addition (26th Jan 2017):
cripple (n.): Old English crypel, related to cryppan “to crook, bend,” from Proto-Germanic *krupilaz (source also of Old Frisian kreppel, Middle Dutch cropel, German krüppel, Old Norse kryppill). Possibly also related to Old English creopan “to creep” (creopere, literally “creeper,” was another Old English word for “crippled person”). [Online Entymology Dictionary]
see the research document The Old English Origin of the Word ‘Cripple’ (Revised)- Keith Armstrong
on looking on ancestry for Ellen it seems the Timothy marriage was to an Ellena ( not Ellen) Healy Don’t know if this makes any difference. There was also a marriage between Ellena Healy and Jacobus Lynnehan February 1836 also Dromtarriffe. If you look at records for this and then click back to page 212/250 there is another marriage 12 January 1834 ?? Barry and Honora which shows CRUPPLEFORD clearer (4th line down on left hand page) All in Dromtarriffe record.
Still don’t know where it is!
Don’t know how to put a link up
The name for the Cruppleford entry Jan 1834 in the right hand column is also Johanus? Healy ( don’t know if these are witnesses) so maybe connected to the Ellena? that married Timothy ?
Well found Anne. The names on the entry seem to read Michaeles Barry and Honora Mannix of Cruppleford, sponsored by Thomas Curtayne/Curlayne and Johannes Healy.
It’s on page 212, left side, third and fourth lines from the top
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633371#page/212/mode/1up
i’ve added the image to the end of the article above.
On looking for the meaning of the word Crupple, the old Scottish Language Dictionary says that Crupple and Cripple are both corruptions of the word Curple (which is itself a corruption of the word crupper). In our context, it would seem to make sense.
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Definition of Crupple – from the Dictionary of the Scots Language (http://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/crupple):
†CRUPPLE, CRUPPEL, Cripple, n. Met. forms of Curple, the crupper of a horse (Gall. 1824 MacTaggart Gallov. Encycl. 152; Rxb. 1923 Watson W.-B., cruppel, cripple, obs.).
[krʌpl, krɪpl]
Rxb. c.1800 Balbirnie Common-Riding Song vi. (Watson):
We . . . Slack our girths and ease the cripple.
Definition of Curple (plural curples) – https://www.wordnik.com/words/curple
1. from Wiktionary, Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License
n. The hindquarters or the rump of a horse, a strap under the girth of a horse’s saddle to stop the saddle from kicking forward
n. The rump, the posterior.
2. from The Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia
n. The crupper; the buttocks.
3. Etymologies
from Wiktionary, Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License
A corruption of the Scottish word crupper.
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The other entry you mentioned was the marriage of Jacob Lynnehan of Ballinamuck and Ellena Healy of Rupglap on February 11th 1836. It’s hard to find a link between this and our own entries. Ballinamuck is in Co. Longford (unless they meant Glenamuck which is between Kiskeam and Newmarket), and once again I’ve never heard of Rupglap.
That entry is on page 216, right side, 5th marriage from the top
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633371#page/216/mode/1up
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As for Ellena and other names. It was normal for the records to be written in Latin. We don’t know from the Parish Registers what was the exact name used.
I am overwhelmed by, and very grateful for, the trouble that people have taken to help solve the Crippleford/Cruppleford mystery. Anne’s discovery of a register entry for Cruppleford that contains the name of a Healy as a sponsor is at least consistent with the possibility that Crippleford/Cruppleford was the home of one or more Healy families, including Ellen’s. I plan to examine more Healy register entries to see if there are others that refer to Crippleford/Cruppleford.
Balllymacuirk and Ros Glas with the old formation of ‘s’ looking like a ‘p’.
There is a Cripple Hill in west Cork – its Irish version might give a clue
https://www.logainm.ie/en/8094?s=Cripplehill
Cnoc an Bhacaigh (Irish)
genitive: Chnoc an Bhacaigh
Cripplehill (English)
—
bhacaigh in the New English–Irish Dictionary (https://www.logainm.ie/en/8094?s=Cripplehill)
bhacaigh could be a grammatical form of: bacach
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bacach in the New English–Irish Dictionary (http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fgb/bacach)
bacach 1, m. (gs. & npl. -aigh, gpl. ~). 1. Lame person. 2. Beggar. 3. (a) Mean person, sponger. (b) Despicable person.
bacach 2, a1. 1. Lame. 2. Halting, imperfect. Rannaire ~, halting rhymer. Leithscéal ~, lame excuse. Faoistin bhacach, imperfect confession. Béarla ~, halting, broken, English.
I am following the Cripple Ford posts with interest. This could of course be translated as Áth an Bhacaigh or Áth a’ Bhacaigh or even Áth ‘n Bhacaigh. Áth translates as a ford. Any place around there with ‘Lobhar’ in the name? Lobhar means leper, which is common enough in Irish place names. So it would be called Áth an Lobhair or Áth a’ Lobhair or even Áth ‘n Lobhair, or some corruption thereof. If it is in fact supposed to be Cripple Fort it would be Rinn an Bhacaigh etc.
There are 41 townlands in the Dromtarriffe Civil Parish. These are listed below. Anyone able to make a link between Crippleford and the townlands listed below:
– the above list is from townlands.ie
Following on from Tadgh’s mention of Fortgrady, I had a look at Fortgrady in the old maps, and low and behold there’s a ford mentioned there in 1890 map.
It wasn’t on the main Rathcoole to Banteer road, but on a side road just off of it, just behind where Coleman’s garage was located. Some might have known the location from the petrol pumps which were only removed ten years ago or so.
The ford was over the same stream that comes down from Carrarague.
But, to make it a little more interesting, in the 1890 map, the site of Coleman’s garage was marked as a blacksmith’s, and it’s right beside the ford … so, as much of blacksmiths work had to do with horses at the time, could the name Cruppleford/Crippleford have been derived from there being a blacksmiths beside the ford over the stream?
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The ford is longer used, nor was a bridge built there. The road was rerouted and no longer crossed the stream. This becomes clear when you compare the 1890 map and google map below:
1840 OSI Map
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,535063,594945,11,7
1890 OSI Map
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,535063,594945,11,9
Google Maps Sattelite
https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Rathcool,+Co.+Cork/@52.1024799,-8.9484416,293m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x4844dcac212a3e8d:0xa00c7a997321fd0!8m2!3d52.0942583!4d-8.9740651
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The passage leads down to a farmyard whi…
In the usual format of the marriage entries in the Dromtarriffe parish register, the husband and wife are identified as “[Name of husband] and [name of wife] of [place name].” Occasionally, and for periods of time over the period covered by the register, a place name is given for the husband as well as for the wife, although often both place names are simply “Dromtarriffe”, perhaps referring only to the parish itself. But in the great majority of entries there is only one place name, positioned after the name of the wife.
My question is whether for these entries we should interpret the solitary place name to be (1) the residence of the wife and not necessarily of the husband, or (2) the residence of both? Interpretation (2) seems more logical, but I know of at least one instance in which the husband and wife resided in different places, and only the wife’s residence was recorded: My g-g-grandmother Mary Buckley was from Rathcool and my g-g-grandfather Patrick Harrington was from Ballinagree in Aghinagh RC parish, but their November 30, 1867 Dromtarriffe marriage entry refers only to Rathcool. Also, for the overwhelming majority of Dromtarriffe marriages only one residence is recorded–and it’s hard to believe that both husband and wife came from the same townland in such a high percentage of cases. (Indeed, for the periods when both residences were recorded, it is quite common to see two different residences).
On the other hand, I can’t think of a good reason why only the wife’s residence would be recorded and not the husband’s. Conceivably the logic was that since the marriage usually took place in the wife’s parish church, it was necessary to record only her residence within the parish. That logic seems a little thin, though, especially because I know of a few instances where members of a parish resided outside the geographic boundaries of the parish.
Any insights that anyone may have on these questions would be most welcome.
One of our readers sent us the following: … I always watch the family tree posts with interest. I spoke with my father about the Cripplefort issue and he had no idea.
However, I did find a link on http://www.duchas.ie which contains scanned copies of information from schools in the 1930’s. The Rathcoole link has a section on forts. Makes for interesting reading.
http://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/4921772/4905590/5170899
Lios is, of course, a fort, as is Ráth.
if you search re Honora Mannix Cruppleford you come across a Darby Mannix perhaps same family? who is listed in 1927 who is shown as Dolimore?Dromtarriff
don’t know if that helps find Cruppleford or makes things worse? if Healy was sponsor then maybe a neighbour of mannix?
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587433/004587433_00154.pdf
I am submitting this post in the hope of finding relatives of my g-g-grandmother Mary Buckley who are still residing in the Milstreet-Rathcoole-Laught area. My wife and I are from the US and will be in the Millstreet area in July, and would love to say hello to any cousins we are able to identify there.
Mary Buckley (1845-1885) was a daughter of Timothy Buckley of Rathcoole and Ellen Healy of Crippleford. They were married in Dromtariffe parish in June 1833. They had at least six children, five of whom lived to adulthood–John, Honora, Denis, Mary and William. Mary married Patrick Harrington of Ballinagree and emigrated to the US in 1868, settling in Concord, Massachusetts. She and Patrick had eight children; Mary died young in 1885.
Mary’s sister Honora and brother William also emigrated to the US and they too settled in Concord. Honora did not marry but William married Catherine Kiely, who I believe may have been from Dromtariffe parish as well. They had two children, and I have a copy of a letter from one of them, Mary Ellen Buckley, to her cousin in Ireland Liam O’Buachalla in 1916.
My g-g-grandmother Mary’s husband Patrick became the foreman of a farm in Concord whose major crop was asparagus–Concord being a major asparagus-growing center in the US at that time. Patrick also, it is said, served as the model for the forearms for the famous Concord Minute Man statue in Concord, sculpted by Daniel Chester French.
Mary’s sister Honora became a domestic servant. She moved from Concord in the 1890s, and spent the last fifteen years or so of her life in Salem, Massachusetts, working as the housekeeper for the rectory of St. James parish there. William remained in Concord for the rest of his life, taking up market gardening. His obituary indicates that he was a well-liked and well-respected man in Concord.
I have not been able to find any information about Mary’s brother Denis (born 1842), but I believe her brother John (c. 1834-1920) remained in the Rathcoole area. I have some information that has allowed me to tentatively trace some of John’s descendants through his son Timothy (1874-1954) and his grandson John (1910-1992). I am wondering whether this grandson John (1910-1992) was the father of the man named John Buckley who, I regret to note, died in Rathcoole in 2016.
It is very possible that I have mistaken or confused some family lines here, and if so I would welcome correction. If any of this information is recognizable to any reader of this post, I would be very grateful to make contact with you, and if you live in the Millstreet area, to shake hands with you when we visit the area next month.
Thanks in advance for any information or contacts you can provide.
Hi my grandfather was Liam o Buachalla and I would absolutely love to meet you when you re in Millstreet ,,,,aine o connor nee Buckley
I am so sorry, Aine, to be slow in responding. We’ve been out of town for the last few days and I have not been good at answering messages.
It would be a great pleasure to meet with you when we’re in the Millstreet area in July. I don’t know as much as I would like to about Liam o Buachalla, but I know enough to realize that he was an interesting and admirable man.
Liam’s papers are held at the Cork Archives Institute in Blackpool. Well worth a visit.
This is a description of Liam’s papers at the Institute:
Title
Liam O’Buachalla (Banteer) Papers
Reference
IE CCCA/U203
Date
1907-1925
Creator
Liam (b1882-d1941) O’Buachalla, Banteer County Cork, Teacher and Gaelic League Organiser
Scope and Content
This collection consists mainly of correspondence relating to O’Buachalla’s work as a Gaelic League teacher and organiser, and founder of the Kilcorney Feis. The collection documents efforts to preserve and promote the Irish language and the preservation and rejuvenation of traditional song and dance in the Millstreet area of Co. Cork. It is also a valuable insight into the ethos of the early 20th century period in Ireland, and the political affiliation, interests, business life, teaching career, and motivations of a Gaelic League member. (Note: Cork Archives also hold the papers of another Liam O’Buachalla, of Carrigtwohill, County Cork, local historian)
Exent
187 items
Level of description
fonds
Hierarchy browser
Liam O’Buachalla (Banteer) Papers
fonds | IE CCCA/U203
1907-1925
Aine,
I was just looking over the series of posts that led up to my visit to Rathcoole, and I came across this one from you. It is great to be able now to put your face together with your post, and I look forward to following up on our too-brief encounters in Rathcoole. I am planning to include a short section on your grandfather in my “family book” on the Buckleys and Harringtons, so I hope we can stay in touch. I don’t know if you have my email address–it is <email>.
Bob